FROM 2007
HARRIET BURNS
talks about Pirates of the Caribbean
and Walt Disney's final days

by Scott Wolf

I just love doing interviews with the wonderful talents that have worked for Disney, but Harriet is a particular delight to talk with. I immediately liked her the first time I spoke to her, and every time we ever spoke after that, after she asked has my boys are, she always had some wonderful stories about working for Disney.

It's almost hard to know what she did for Disney because she did so much, but certainly not what you would expect from a lady in the 1950s. She did everything from painting sets for the "Mickey Mouse Club" to literally building Sleeping Beauty Castle for Disneyland.

Who couldn't be impressed with this lady who, with Fred Joerger and Wathel Rogers, were Walt Disney's first three Imagineers? Harriet was even in the meeting when the term Audio Animatronics was coined. I know you'll enjoy my interviews with this incredible lady!

For Pirates of the Caribbean, Harriet Burns was involved in much of the design. She developed models, and was literally involved in building and manufacturing figures and sets.

SW: You were involved with Pirates of the Caribbean, right?

HB: Oh yes. When there were just a few of us I was always involved. We did the models first which Walt always required, a three dimensional model and he had this little scope. You could even film through the scope.

SW: Yes, so you could see what it would look like to the guests, that’s on the Disneyland 10th Anniversary TV show. Was that the first time the scope was used?

HB: Oh no. I remember it way back in the late 1950s.

With the pirate ride we did little stuff and then we did the inch scale. Usually we didn’t do a one inch scale. That was big. (Thinking) It was either an inch or an inch and a half.

It was a forty foot long model. That’s the biggest model we ever did. We did it in sections. It was on sawhorses so that Walt could be pushed through on a chair at eye height.

SW: You literally pushed him on a chair?

HB: Yes so that he could see it as the public would see it.

SW: Did you ever feel that he was just kind of playing? Like he was enjoying it like a big kid?

HB: Oh definitely. See, that’s what he could do in our department. Whereas in animation he had to be more business-like. With us he would talk and he would blue sky and we would throw ideas around and we really had fun.

Well, not always… sometimes he’d bring down Art Directors and he’d be more business-like. Sometimes he’d bring down executives like the Bank of America President. But still he always had that extroverted demeanor.

SW: So you were involved in creating the models from the beginning…

HB: And the design. Marc (Davis) was doing like storyboard ideas of his cartoons and then Blaine was responsible for sculpting. Blaine had to incorporate the humor of Marc’s, because Marc had a wonderful sense of humor and he had to incorporate that as much as he could in a three dimensional head.

SW: And was your initial involvement the models?

HB: Well, yes, and the sets and behind, like the treasure chests.

SW: Marc didn’t really do the sets or backgrounds for this, right?

HB: I think he was a people person. Claude Coats did a lot. He was an architect but he was a wonderful painter and had a wonderful ability for these attractions. He did all of the layout for Pirates and because of his architectural background he could do that so well.

Then we did a prototype in a building of the bridge and the pirate with the leg over the bridge and all of that. We set that up so Walt could see that in real size. We put the real things up there. Walt saw that while he was still living.

He never saw the real ride.

SW: I knew he never saw the ride completed, but he did get to see a lot of it?

HB: Yes. Ten days before he died they asked me to do a funny parrot. They said Walt is so ill and he’s not doing well. He went to Palm Springs… he’d always go to Palm Springs to take in the sun and then he’d come back and he’d be fine. This time they said he didn’t look good. They said, “Do something funny for him.” Marc had seen this 102 year old parrot in New Orleans and he plucked out all his pin feathers and his chest and he said the poor old parrot had these sticks coming out for legs. They said, “Make him a funny parrot like that and Walt will get tickled.” So I did. Walt came in, he looked all gray, we had a brief meeting and he walked out and we never even showed him the parrot. He looked so sick and then ten days later he was gone.

SW: So you knew at that point it might have been it?

HB: Oh no. He always got well. Knowing Walt, we always knew he’d get well. We never dreamed it.

SW: How did you find out that he passed away?

HB: Well, Bill Cottrell, Walt’s brother-in-law who was the first President of WED (now known as Imagineering). He was a neighbor of ours, he was down the next block from us and John Hench was down the other way, and Roy Disney was down at the end of the street. We had a lot of people in our area in Toluca Lake.

Bill Cottrell was at my desk at the time and a phone call came from Charlotte, his secretary and I picked it up and Charlotte said, “Harriet! Is Bill there?” She said, “Let me talk to him!” And she was gasping. I put Bill on and he said, “What?! I’ll be right there!” He slammed down the phone and turned to me and said, “Walt just died. Don’t say anything.” I said, “It can’t be!” He said, “Don’t say anything.” And he left immediately to go back upstairs.

Oh man! Tears squirted out of my eyes, I didn’t even realize it. I looked down. I couldn’t believe it. We knew he had gone back to St. Joseph’s hospital but he had been there and back and forth from time to time and had little things done and whatnot.

A lot of people had radios on their desk and Mitsu, this wonderful Japanese artist who always called me “Miss Harriet” came in and said, “Miss Harriet! Miss Harriet!” and he started walking towards me and he saw my face and just turned around and went the other way. They already announced it on the radio. It was all over instantly. Oh, people couldn’t believe it.

This was only ten days after he’d been in for a meeting. We’d seen him walking. He didn’t look good but he was always hacking and hacking, we never thought that much.

SW: So it was a big shock.

HB: It was a terrible shock.

SW: Was Pirates the last attraction he actually supervised?

HB: That and Epcot.

SW: So he always had lots of things going on?

HB: Oh definitely. He gave us years of stuff to do that was planned.

Photo provided by Walt Disney Imagineering.

More from Harriet:
Some great stories from Harriet
Disneyland's opening day and employee's skepticism
Creating the robins for "Mary Poppins"
Working on Disneyland's original submarines

See other interviews